Hi there,

I have 2 questions regarding infusion of a mega dose of ascorbic acid, which I have noticed over the past few years since I started using ascorbic acid intravenously.

1. Blood pressure prior to starting the infusion was 120/70 mm of Hg & Random Blood sugar 108 mmol/l.

2. After infusing 45 gms of sodium ascorbate in 1000 ml of saline over a period of 120mins, BP rose to 160/100 mm of Hg & blood sugar to approx 550 mmol/l, what’s the medical logic/rationale behind these changes.

According to Dr Klenner & Linus Pauling’s research Vit C is supposed to be beneficial for diabetics.

I have used mega doses of ascorbic acid infusions on several of my patients & have seen the same i.e. rise in BP & Blood sugar.

Hoping to hear your thoughts,

Regards,

Doc.

Thanks Dr. Ofonorow for your reply & the sent links.

1. Could the rise in blood sugar be due to the measurements made by finger prick technique?

2. I understand the link of anxiety with a blood pressure raise, but such a major raise & secondly in all my patients?

3. Possibly it could be due to one of these reasons, using normal saline to make a mega dose I/V, I should try using Ringers or not adding Bs & Folic?

4. I use whole sales nutrition 2000 gm pack sodium ascorbate, http://www.nutri.com/index.cfm/product/ ... a-only.cfm

The 2500 Gms pack does not contain sodium. http://www.nutri.com/index.cfm/product/ ... a-only.cfm

The sum of sodium in the ascorbic acid crystals & normal saline could be a possible cause of this rise in blood pressure, invariably in all my patients who despite being normotensive prior to infusion have a significant rise in blood pressure.

Whatever I post are conclusions from actual clinical experiences & no hypothetical scenarios.

Just my thoughts.

Regards,

Doc.

45 Grams Sodium Ascorbate in 2 hours will produce “Flash Oxidation.”
But your also infusing about 7.6 Grams sodium from the SA. So if your using .9 Ringers which is 9 Grams per liter your running a little steep in two hours.

I intend producing Flash Oxidation.

Haven't tried using Ringers, always have used normal saline.

You recommed decreasing the duration to around 60-90 mins vs 120?

What are your thoughts about the pressures, could sodium be the reason?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts,

Regards,

Doc.

No Longer times Slow it down, to much to fast. High V-C Iv is a strong oxidizer. Sodium Ascorbate is about 16% sodium watch sodium levels.
Watch Hydration!!

Thanks for sharing your views.

Longer times....be specific......for 60 gms in 1000ml how long.......my friend a specialist only in Ortho med suggests 130 drops/min?

I agree about hydration.....cause ALL my patients during an I/V have a sense of thirst & take sips of water once approx 300-400 cc is transfused.......any other recommendations regarding hydration?

Would you recommend using Ringers vs N. saline?

Regards,

Doc.

There’s been some published reports of people in good general health who have experienced “Metabolic Acidosis” due to rapid infusion of normal saline. There recommending no more then a half liter per hour in patients who are not experiencing hypovolemia. Which is right where your at. Since your getting pretty good results except for the BP rises which I believe is Na overload (Hypernatremia). My suggestion would be to try Half-Saline or maybe even Quarter Saline both normally contain D5 your call if that would make a difference in your patients. Since Sodium Ascorbate contains anywhere from 111 to a 165 mg of sodium per 1000Mg check your package for actual amounts. You can calculate the sodium levels.
Example: 150MgNa Per Gram, 45 Grams=6.75Grams Na. Half Saline=4.5Grams Na Per Liter. Total Na per liter of solution=11.25 Grams Na.
Normal Saline =9 Grams + 6.75 Grams=15.75 Na Per Liter.
Hope this helps and Thank You for REALLY Helping people who need you.

Thanks again for your in-depth views & encouragement. I appreciate your thoughts in highlighting the hyernatremic factor as the reason for the rise in pressures.

1. What if I use sterile water 1000 ml vs. n saline?

2. The 2500 Gms pack of ascorbate crystals, sold by Wholesale Nutrition contains no sodium, won’t that help too in decreasing the natremic effect as compared to the 2000 Gm one that contains 131 mg/ 12%/ quarter teaspoon. But it says on their site the only 2000 Gms one is used to make I/Vs. What are your views about the both i.e. can both be used to make I/Vs or the sodium factor is necessary for a mega dose I/V?

Quarter teaspoon = 1 Gms of ascorbate & 131 mg of Na. 4Gms/ 524 mg of sodium = 1 teaspoon, 60 Gms/ 6.288 Gms of sodium= 12 teaspoons. Am I correct, was always bad at calculations?

3. If this calculation is correct than with n. saline a 60 Gms I/V would contain 9+ 6.28 = 15.28 Gms of sodium & using sterile water only 6.28Gms of sodium.

4. I was seeing these pressure changes, especially when I exceeded the limit beyond 60 to 88 Gms in 1000 ml of n. saline & duration of infusion was 120 mins.

I shall use sterile water for a 60 Gms infusion 8- 12hourly increasing the duration to around 150 mins & let you know about the pressure changes, hyernatremic & hydration effects.

Any other thoughts, views would be appreciated.


Regards,

Doc.

12% sodium not 16%....http://www.nutri.com/index.cfm/product/ ... .cfm....am I correct?

Regards,

Doc.

Thanks Dr. Owen for your response,

Following is what I infer from it.

1. Sodium in the n. saline is the cause of rise in blood pressure & not the one in ascorbate......am I correct………if yes than I/Vs using sterile water shouldn’t cause that significant rise in normotensive individuals?

2. I agree with the logic of false positive testing & structural similarities............ “Blood pressures could rise as a reflex to a fall in blood sugar”…….but again ascorbate causes a drop in a serum cortisol……which theoretically should cause a drop in both blood pressure & sugar. Low cortisol should be an obstacle in the way of low sugar triggering a reflex rise in pressure?

3. The net sum of all these reflex & counter reflex physiological effects of ascorbate should let the pressures remaining unchanged or slightly elevated & blood sugar dropped……whose rise is false positive.

Hoping to hear your personal thoughts as always,

Regards,

Doc.

Hope Dr. Levy did take into account the effect of ascorbate on cortisol.

Regards,

Doc.

1. Dr. Klenner in one of his reports use to encourage his patients to eat & drink while infusing an I/V to counter hypoglycemia & dehydration.

2. My thoughts from it are that are that he wanted to avoid the reflex raise in pressures as suggested by Dr. Levy.

3. To refine that further it would be better to use D saline to make an I/V or half dextrose & half sterile water or whole sterile water depending on the patient’s glycemic condition.

4. So I would use either of the 3 compositions to make a mega dose I/V to counter the rise in pressures & encourage the patients to eat during the I/V……….if the patient isn’t diabetic it would be wise to use a Dextrose composition………all or half.

5. I have a patient scheduled in the coming days to get a 10 mega doses of I/V…….now this patient isn’t diabetic or hypertensive……..she has infiltrating lacteal duct carcinoma of the breast, grade 3, Stage 2 a.

6. I shall use these combinations & shall let you know about the pressure changes post infusion of 60-80 Gms of sodium ascorbate.

Regards,

Doc.