Hi,

>>At our office we routinely give our cancer patients IV Vitamin C of 65 to
100 gms or more in order to achieve a level of 300-400 mg/ dl as suggested
by Dr. Riordin's research (in vitro as it was). We also give oral Alpha
Lipoic Acid 300mg at the beginning of the infusion and again at the end of
the infusion.

The dose of alpha lipoic acid is low for a potential therapeutic effect.

>>And we also give 800-1800 mg of IV Glutathione after the infusion is done.
I have read somewhat conflicting information about the enhancement of the
Vitamin C activity to produce hydrogen peroxide in the presence of
Glutathione and also that Glutathione spoils the effect of the Ascorbic
Acid. I just came across another practitioner's mix that puts the
Glutathione and Alpha Lipoic Acid in the IV bottle with the Vitamin C.


I don't have specific information of the combination of glutathione and vitamin C. Ascorbate acts as a specific oxidant in tumours generating H2O2 and also potentially poisoning the cell by uptake of dehydroascorbate in an oxidising environment.

I don't have direct data on using ascorbate and glutathione together. The glutathione could act as an antioxidant and lower the effectiveness of the ascorbate in the tumour. In other tissues the antioxidant effect would be welcome.

Unless you have specific information regarding the simultaneous combination of ascorbate and glutathione in tumours combining the two may be unproductive.


>>At the office we thought that the serum half life of Ascorbic Acid would
allow the Glutathione to be infused immediately after the IV bottle was done
without any interference, and probably with no enhancement either.

There is some absorption and release of ascorbate by the tissues when high doses are given which will extend the apparent half-life at the end of an infusion.

>>May I please ask a couple questions of you? I don't think there is any
other source that I would trust as much as the Vitamin C Foundation.


The Brightspot for Health have considerable clinical experience in this area.


>>1) Is there information, or a professional opinion, that would suggest
how to best use Glutathione and Vitamin C in proximity of each other?

Can you explain the rationale for using both of these substances? Are you using glutathione as a direct anticancer agent and if so can you provide background info?

Remember you can preload tumour cells with antioxidants, such as with giving doses of dehydroascorbate, to gain a protective antioxidant response which inhibits the action of ascorbate and cytotoxic drugs.

Selecting synergistic anticancer agents to work with high dose ascorbate is quite difficult. The direct information is limited although there are many possibilities. Alpha-lipoic acid, selenium, arsenic, copper, menadione, moteafin gadolinium etc are known to work. Co Q10 may work... Glutathione?


>>2) Would including Selenium in the IV bottle affect the oxidizing
function of the IV Vitamin C?


It depends on the form of selenium, for example it would be most unwise to mix selenite and ascorbate in solution. Selenium can be given orally in high doses and it will act as a free radical generator and cytotoxic agent. There should be no need to put it in an IV.

>>The other doctors and I at our office would be very appreciative of any
help you could give.

I strongly recommend you get a copy of "Cancer: Nutrition and Survival":

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141166 ... d_i=507846

a simple guide is "The Cancer Breakthrough"

Try Amazon.com if the links do not work.

Note - the current approach to using IV ascorbate as a form of chemotherapy has theoretical limitations. We predict that it may be counterproductive and have a similar effect to conventional chemotherapy in that it may generate resistance to treatment. The aim is to get a constant selective pressure on the cancer cells and prevent such resistance developing. Note we are getting sporadic reports from people using IV vitamin C in cancer which seem to support this idea. Also, IV ascorbate is likely to be less effective if it follows conventional chemotherapy or radiation.

The claim that IV ascorbate has greater benefit than oral vitamin C driven redox therapy has no foundation in evidence (despite the claims of some). Note it appears that oral vitamin C therapy (with standard tablets and liposomes) can produce plasma levels that are maintained constantly above 400-500 microM/L. This long term progressive approach (with synergistic alpha-lipoic acid/selenium etc) should be the foundation of vitamin C based cancer therapy. IV ascorbate is as a possible means of providing some additional tumour shrinkage if it is required.

I hope this is helpful.

Steve
(Steve Hickey PhD)

--
Information in this message is intended for educational and scientific
purposes only. It is not intended as medical or nutritional advice for the
treatment or prevention of disease. Treatment of serious illness, such as
cancer (for example), should be undertaken with the advice and supervision
of an appropriate physician.

8. I agree selenium etc all may work synergistically but I have no clinical experience of my own to share. Never heard of alpha lipoic being anticancer clinically. Theoretically things are different vs. on ground reality & clinical condition.

1. Why not add both ALA & K3 to IVC……any specific reason to add either of the one & not both……..cause both have similar action on the membrane walls?

2. Will the oral dose of either pre & post infusions have similar effects?

Regards,

Doc.

Firstly, it is relatively easy to shrink a tumor. Tumor shrinkage has been a standard measure for the effectiveness of anticancer treatments for some time. Unfortunately, as the tumor shrinks the remaining cells are those that are more resistant to the treatment. The tumor grows back resistant to treatment and there is usually no increase in life expectancy.

There is increasing support for IV sodium ascorbate (not ascorbic acid) in treating cancer. However, there is little evidence to suggest IV administration will have greater benefit to the patient than can be achieved with oral supplementation. A discussion can be found here:

http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/eletters/mdn377v4

Antioxidants are a great method for cancer prevention. Vitamin C is an excellent antioxidant. However, standard antioxidants may not be useful for existing tumor therapy. Fortunately, at high doses, ascorbate acts as an oxidant for tumors.

Ascorbate generates H2O2 and DEPLETES glutathione in tumors. Some other antioxidants can combine synergistically with ascorbate and provide a greater anticancer effect, examples include selenium, lipoic acid, and copper. However, at high levels these substances are also acting as oxidants in tumors. The combinations help kill cancer cells and may provide the basis for a successful oral anticancer therapy (redox therapy).

Notably, glutathione is expected to act as an antioxidant in tumors and may inhibit the anticancer action of ascorbate based redox therapy and standard chemotherapy. While a combination of ascorbate and glutathione would be expected to prevent cancers, once the tumor is established they may have antagonistic actions.
Here is a description of glutathione promoting resistance of tumors to therapy:

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10 ... 0500523878

If anyone has references to a mechanism or data on the benefits of increased glutathione in tumors as opposed to harm, it would be useful. There may be a useful redox mechanism from glutathione at some concentrations or under specific conditions but, if so, it would be important to know what they are.