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 Still Has Angina After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan 
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Still Has Angina After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan
It is possible that the "pain" after the meal is related to GERD. After exertion is more common of angina pectoris.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:41 am
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Post Re: After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan
Dear Owen,

You may have known me already, thru Sally who is advising me on my recent problems with megadosage of Ascorbic Acid. I am inspired by the letter of “Z” of Pakistan who wrote about his father’s problems. My case is no different. Let me briefly summarized my medical history:
I was diagnosed with quadruple arterial blockages last Dec. 2006 at the Dammam General Hospital in Saudi Arabia. I was to immediately undergo an open heart surgery which I refused. I went on emergency medical leave in March 2007 to Manila and consulted my cardiologist for a second opinion coz I preferred to have an angioplasty instead. I had the angioplasty (4 medicated stents were used) on March 17, 2007. I flew back to Saudi Arabia after two weeks. I had a high cholesterol level (220), diabetic and hypertensive. My cardiologists prescribed 11 medicines daily to take, i.e. Plavix, Lipitor (20mg), Isordil (20mg), Aspirin (80mg), Vastarel (2xD), Diltiazem (2xD), Tenormin(50 mg 2xd), Renitic, Metformin(500mg 3xD), Diamicron (80 mg 2xD), Altos (30mg).
I reduced my meat intake and increased fish and vegetables and fruits. My blood cholesterol and triglycerides went down considerably to below 150mg. My BP has been controlled and my blood sugar is slightly above normal.
Recently, however, I am having heavy chest especially when walking briskly and easily get tired. I began to search for answer in the internet until I discovered the Linus Pauling Theraphy. I also came to know about your book “Practicing Medicine without a License” (which I purchased recently and delivered to my Philippine address), and the Vitamin C Foundation. I immediately became a follower of Pauling. I gradually increased my ascorbic intake from 2g up to 16g daily. I also started taking lysine starting at 3g and increased to 6g. I had bouts of diarrhea during the process but was able to manage it . After taking high dosage of ascorbic acid for several weeks, I felt good, the heaviness in my chest gradually disappeared.
However, about 2 weeks ago, in my monthly doctor’s checkup, my cardiologist noticed that I was pale. He asked me to immediately undergo CBC. The result showed my hemoglobin was a low of 11g (vs normal of 13g) which manifests anemic condition. He then instructed me to have urinalysis, creatinine, urea and blood stool occult test. Urinalysis and creatinine showed normal ranges. However, Urea was abnormally high at 114 mg (max normal of 50mg) and blood stool occult test was positive. I told my doctor that I am taking megadose of Ascorbic Acid. He instructed me to undergo another urea and blood stool occult test after one week and to abstain from eating meat and taking vitamin c supplement and food rich in vit c 3 days before the test. The result showed that my urea went down to a normal level of 50 mg and the blood stool occult test showed negative. My doctor advised me to stop taking Vit C supplements and asked me to have another test after a month (mid November 2008). After I stopped taking ascorbic acid, however, I felt that heaviness in my chest is coming back and I again I feel tired easily. I decided to start taking ascorbic acid again (against the advise of my doctor) in low dosage (as advised by Sally Jewel) – to 3gr of ascorbic and 3g of lysine, in 2 equal dosages a day.
Yesterday, Sally Jewel answered my query by sending me your opinion – to take ascorbic acid in smaller doses more frequently. Probably in 3 equal dosages a day. My diet is more of fish and chicken (without skin) and fruits and vegetables. I am no longer experiencing frequent bowel intolerance. I have also cut my medicine intake as follows:
Lipitor (from 20 to 10mg), Diltiazem (1xD), Vastarel (1xD).
Should I continue taking aspirin and plavix? How about my hypertensive tables (Tenormin and Renitic)? I have visited Livonlabs.com and found the study of Dr. Hickey on Vit C very interesting. I’ll check if Lypho-Spheric Vitamin C is available in the Kingdom.
Thank you very much for taking your time reading this quite long medical history.

Regards, Roger Sarmiento, Petro Rabigh, Rabigh, Saudi Arabia.
October 22, 2008


Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:54 am
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9190
Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Still Has Angina After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan
Thank you for posting. I strongly disagree with your doctor's advice to stop vitamin C. As I may have already mentioned, Pauling advised not stopping vitamin C "even for a single day." Now we are all individuals, and you may be a rare exception to the rule that high vitamin C is safe. I am hoping that by posting here, someone may have an idea/theory why your urea increased while on high vitamin C, and why it seemed to normalize after you stopped ascorbate.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Still Has Angina After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan
Hi Owen!

I hope you are doing well.

A little bit of update before I ask my question. My father is doing exceptionally well with his angina. He hasn't had it ever since he reached his maximum intake which is 18 grams. He has been walking a lot lately but still there is no sign of angina.

Now to my question. Lately, he has been having pain in his hands. He says he feels extreme burning feeling in his knuckles.His knuckles even lockout at times where he cant move them. It's becoming very difficult for him to hold on to any object.

I was wondering if you have come across such a case in the past. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Regards


Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:47 am
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9190
Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Still Has Angina After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan
I notice that my reply to the above message was never posted properly. Sorry. It probably revolved around the idea of following Linus Pauling's entire regimen in HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER as this regimen cleared up my own gouty arthritis around 20 years ago.

Quote:
Dear Owen,

First of all, I'd like to thank you for all your help you have given me.My father's quality of life has improved greatly with angina out of his life.

Owen I had some questions for you. My father forced his cardiologist to stop plavix. but now he has him on lowplat.I just recently discovered that it is almost the same as plavix. Since my father has reached his maximum vitamin c tolerence and hes been on it for a few months now I wanted him to venture and stop taking lowplat all together. I'd appreciate if you can shed some like on it.

He is also taking angettes(asprin). I wanted to replace it with arginine 3-6 grams.what do you suggest about that?

And in your book you state not to take vitamin k with blood thinners. I want to know if this is an absolute no no? I believe the medicines he is on right now, some of the are blood thinners.I think asprin is a blood thinner too??

I know I have asked you a lot of questions.But I cant ask these to anyone else.And my father's cardiologist being the worst one to ask.

Regards,
Z.



Glad your dad is feeling better.

By blood thinner, I mean warfarin or heparin/coumadin - and your father would be told not to take vitamin K. If he isn't being told, it is fine to take it.

I don't like aspirin - arginine is a good replacement, probably in conjunction with Omega-3 oils, vitamin E, and even Wobenzymes.

What is his C tolerance? How much vitamin C can he take? Depending on the answer, I might recommend adding lipospheric (Lypo-C) from livonlabs.com to get even more into his blood stream.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:27 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9190
Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Still Has Angina After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan
Quote:
Dear Owen,

Thank you for your response.

The current medicines my father is taking are:
Tenorimin:100mg/day
Lowplat:75mg/day
elan:50mg/day
Angettes(Asprin):75mg/day

I'll ask him to ask his cardiologist if anyone of these are blood thinners.
His vitamin C tolence is 16.5 grams/day.He was having 18 but said that was
giving him diherrea.

Currently he is taking the following supplements:

Vitamin C:16.5g/day
CoQ10:200 mg
Lysine:6 g
Vitamin K:1.8 g
Magnesium: 750 mg
fish oils:2 g

Since he has reached his max vitamin C intake I want him to gradually go
off the medicines all together.what do you think? I'll start off with asprin.

So with arginine I guess I'll start of with 3 grams/day.How much of
vitamin E?and what function does Wobenzymes have.I tried googling but only
found its an anti-inflamatory supplement.

Btw, I had another question.I'd appreciate if you can answer it.My father
has extreme pain in his knuckles.To a point where he cant lift anything
slightly heavy.He says he feels a burning sesation in them.Do you have any
idea what this might be?

Thanks a lot for all the help Owen.We really appreciate it.

Regards,
Z


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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:21 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9190
Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Still Has Angina After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan
Quote:
Hi owen,

I hope you are doing well.

Just a reminder, my father is taking the following:

Vitamin C:16.5g/day
CoQ10:200 mg
Lysine:6 g
Vitamin K:1.8 g
Magnesium: 750 mg
fish oils:2 g

He is also taking ascard and Lipiget along with it(recently restarted).

A recent blood test of my father had the following results:


Haematocrit 39.9%
Haemoglobin 13.5%(Normal range:13.7-16.3)
Vitamin d3 22.28(vitamin d insufficiency)
Serum.cholestrol 241 mg/dl
Serum. Triglycerides 143 mg/dl
HDL-Cholestrol 29 mg/dl
LDL-Cholestrol 180mg/dl
VLDL-Cholestrol 29 mg/dl
Glucose fasting 104 (Normal range: 65-110)

The doctor is saying his cholestrol levels are too high.What do you think might be the cause?He is not having any angina at all. Been complaining about joint aches lately but that's it.

I'll appreciate and help on this.

Also,my mother has had high blood pressure for a long time.We had to rush her to the hospital today.I am thinking of getting her started with vitamin c too.along with lysine.I searched your forums and in one of the posts you said this combination can lower bp.So ill give it a try.

Many Thanks!

Z


Your father has started drugs again - for what reason?

16.5 grams of vitamin C is usually quite adequate, but some people require twice as much to reverse the illness. See http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

From the high glucose/cholesterol, I infer that he requires more vitamin C. (He should make sure he is avoiding processed foods with unnatural fats, trans fats are especially bad and will lead to high blood sugar, which competes with vitamin C for uptake to cells.)

I hope he is also getting a multiple vitamin. Vitamin E is very important, for example. I might add Alpha Lipoic Acid until the blood sugar goes down to 80-90. Will help with C absorption.

Yes, you mother would do well to begin vitamin C.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sat May 02, 2009 4:51 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9190
Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Still Has Angina After Angioplasty/Stent - Pakistan
Quote:
Hi Owen,

He started back because the doctors have freaked him out because of the high cholesterol. I will get him to up the vitamin c and drop the drugs out.

I also think that his food intake is not good.I will get him to improve onthat.

I'll come back to you with results in 30 days.

Hes having a lot of trouble with weakness and aches in his body.Can he do something about that? he never has energy to do anything.


Thanks a lot for your help.

Regards,
Z.


Weakness and aches in the body (muscles) are symptoms of coenzyme Q10 depletion. Many drugs interfere with the body's production of CoQ10, and thus these drugs will cause weakness and aches in the body - statins, especially, are known to deplete coQ10 blood levels - which is why these symptoms appear. While he is weaning himself off the drugs, preferably with a doctor's help, he should take perhaps 400 mg of coQ10, eat with fats, and after he feels better, and is off the drugs, he could perhaps lower to 200 mg CoQ10 daily. I know it is not cheap.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sat May 02, 2009 4:55 am
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